Question: Have you ever weightd the contents of that 2.2 cc dipper? I have a couple of scales but no Lee dippers. And my insulin syringes only hold a max of 1 cc ;-)Yeah, jpg, I have. The short answer is that the 2.2 dipper holds 27.5 grains of my lot of surplus 4895. Your mileage and your 4895 might be different.
However, 4895 is really easy to use for reduced loads, using either cast or jacketed bullets. The Hodgdon site tells us that:
For years, H4895 has been the top choice by cast bullet shooters. For this type shooting, loads are reduced even more than the hunting loads listed herein. To create loads of this type for target and plinking, we recommend our 60% rule with H4895. By taking the maximum charges listed in our Annual Manual with any given cartridge and multiplying it by 60%, the shooter can create a 1500 to 2100 fps load, depending on the bullet weight shown. This works only where H4895 is listed. Do not use H4895 in a cartridge where it has not been shown.I have found that this 60% rule works with my surplus 4895 as well as canister grade IMR 4895. I can't recommend this practice due to liability concerns, but I haven't gotten in trouble in practice.
The Hodgdon manual lists 46.7 grains of H4895 as the top end load for a 175 grain bullet in 30-06. 60% of that is 28 grains of powder. My 2.2 cc dipper loads really closely to that at 27.5 grains.
Using dippers instead of weighing individual charges makes sense for me on a couple of counts, not the least of which is that powder is hydroscopic, that is, it retains moisture. 28 grains of powder might be different in dry Arizona than it is in humid Louisiana, but 2.2 ccs is the same everywhere, even Texas.
Try cast bullets in your .30-06. They're generally less expensive than jacketed, they are useful as practice and plinking loads, and even as hunting loads when the hunter limits his shots to reasonable ranges. There is something satisfying about taking an animal with a bullet you cast yourself, in a cartridge you loaded yourself.
Shooters that make cast bullet loads for the .30-30 tell us that the 311041 at 1750-1800 fps does just fine when used on whitetailed deer. My cast loads with the 30-30 gives me an average 1880 fps out of my 20" carbine. That same load gives me an average 1794 out of my 22" barreled 30-06. From either rifle, it's a good load for 125 yards, which is plenty of range for the north Louisiana woods. If I need a beanfield gun, I'll take something else.
You have a different style of matching gun to hunt that us Westerners.
ReplyDeleteIt seems down South, you figure the ranges in advance, the bullet factor for game, and build a round that will suffice.
Out West, we figure what MIGHT be the LONGEST range, add in a factor for 20% more than that, another 10% for wind, factor the bullet for game and up it to the next level, (if it's deer season, take elk rounds) and so forth.
This is why you see brush-country hunters here carrying 7mm Magnums, or .338 Winchesters.
If I went hunting with you, and brought a .357 Mag levergun, with 180-grain rounds loaded with 10 to 13 grains of slow pistol powder, you'd probably say I was overgunned.
If I took the same gun into the Western Oregon woods and stumbled into a friendly deer camp with it, when I got handed my coffee, someone would inevitably ask me if I knew that rabbit season had closed.
It ain't just the accents, it's the guns, too that differ widely from swamp to mountains.
George.
ReplyDeleteDon't oversimplify us. I heard just last year from a Louisiana hunter that the .300 magnum was just the ticket for beanfield shooting. Normally, those ranges can be measured in quarter miles, with a 500 yard shot fairly common. My son shoots a 7mm magnum.
From my stand on a pipeline in LaSalle parish, 500 yards wouldn't be unheard of. I personally won't shoot at a deer over 300 yards, but my brother-in-law has range markers from his stand all the way out to 1000 yards. He shoots a custom heavy barreled .270.
For myself, I prefer still hunting. That is, slipping from tree to tree along a creek bottom. For that type hunting, 125 yards is a long, long shot. And, your 180 grain 357 is probably the perfect deep woods deer/hog rifle.
Thanks for your comment.
PawPaw, do you use the red dipper, yellow, or both? I've even got an old black set I still use when the need is there.
ReplyDeleteThanks.
Stephen,
ReplyDeleteMy set is yellow. As I think about it, all the dippers I have are yellow, except for those few I've custom made from .45-70 brass.
Interesting, the older red ones were made back in the sixties and throw different amounts of like powders. I purchased mine off ebay and have found them very useful.
ReplyDeleteThanks.
If have a dipper which came with an old Lee Classic Loader. The handle is wood!!
ReplyDeleteBeanfields, yeah, I forgot beanfields. My most embarassing hunting moment came (at age 18) in an AR beanfield near England, AR (close to ancestral home).
ReplyDeleteRest of hunting group (about 8-9 guys) were scattered along a woods road, one or two at each bend in the road. A drover on horseback drove hounds around in the woods, hoping to chase deer across the road and give us a shot.
I had the only rifle, an open-sighted Savage 99 in .308, so my hosts put me in the back of the pickup, with the cab for a rest, facing a beanfield at the edge of the woods.
There I sat for two hours, but finally heard the cry of the hounds coming my way, and I got ready. I had a full load in the rifle, 6 rounds, and another 5 standing by.
The deer broke cover first at 225 yards, the third one out being a nice buck, so I tracked his slow-moving form over the sights (the beanfield was wet) and squeezed. I saw the fall of the shot in the mud, well short. The first round caused the deer to break directly away from me, so I was in the unenvious position of having to raise the barrel with each successive shot. I shot the gun dry with no results. The buck never even slowed down. I had nimble fingers then, and quickly stuffed another five into the Savage.
My first shot of the second load had to be close to 300 yards over the buckhorn sights, but I took it, and the next four, anyway.
As my hunting partners ran back up the woods road, after hearing all the shooting, they expected to see a whole herd of deer dead in that beanfield. Instead, there was zip, nothing, nada.
I got some really strange looks from my cousins, but we slogged out into the soggy beanfield, found all the tracks, found no blood, did find a few bullet furrows, most of which were 3 feet or so wide of the tracks.
I went home after that (puppy tail between legs), got a Herter's catalog out, and ordered a Weaver K-4, which still sits on the rifle today. That Savage has accounted for all but two of the 9 deer I have shot over the years.
My constant and faithful load for it has always been Winchester 150-grain Silvertip.
Since that ill-fated safari, my longest shot taken on a deer is about 200 yards, and I missed that. My longest killing shot is about 160 yards.
Elk are a different proposition, and I use 180 grain Power Point for them, but I've only ever gotten one shot off at an elk, and it was in the dense Western Oregon woods in a driving rainstorm, at 35 feet, and I missed.
Keep it up, PawPaw, you have the best common-sense rifle blog going now.
Many thanks for the detailed answer. I'll definitely make use of at least some of that data.
ReplyDeleteBest,
JPG