Friday, July 15, 2011

80% of the American People

I heard this on the radio this morning, and I shook my head. When I saw this on Drudge, I snorted. I thought surely it must have been a mistake. The President said that 80% of the American people support a balanced approach to the deficit. Cut spending and more taxes. Surely he didn't say that?
“The American people are sold. The American people are sold, I just want to repeat that. You have 80% of the American people who support a balanced approach. 80% of the American people support an approach that includes revenues and includes cuts.
Turns out, he said it.

I don't know what he was thinking when he said that, but his spin just turned into a damned lie. Eighty percent of Americans don't support increased taxes. If our President believes that, then he's a bigger fool than I ever suspected. 80% percent of Americans support higher taxes. Yeah, right, Mr. President. Not only are you a fool, but you're a damned liar.

I'm betting that the pollsters have a field day with this one. But, for the record, our President is a damned fool. He's probably a felon, too, but we're going to have to wait until Holder is indicted before we find out about that. Right now, fool is enough for me.

UPDATE** Neither Rasmussen nor Gallup back up his 80% claim. He's making it up as he goes along, but that's what fools do. You'd think in this age of instant fact-checking, he'd learn that, but again, our President is a fool. A damned fool.


J said...

So, Pawpaw, you think most Americans are OK with Exxon-Mobil paying zero income taxes on $1,000,000,000 per week profit? The depletion allowance was instituted when oil was $2 a barrel. It's still in effect due to the millions Exxon-Mobil and Chevron give to Republican candidates. It has zilch to do with the price of over-taxed gasoline before someone chimes in with that piece of spin. The right wing is willing, no, wanting, to shut down the government to keep billionaire oil producers from paying any income tax at all and to keep those making $250,000+ from getting a tax reinstated. I have a hard time understanding why anyone would rather shut down nursing homes than see billionaires pay more in taxes.

Pawpaw said...

Who owns Exxon-Mobil, J? It's not the Getty family, even though I'm sure they've got stock in it. No, nowadays the biggest owners of Exxon-Mobil are pension funds like the ones that's paying my Mother. She holds Exxon stock, and ATT stock and stock from several other big companies. They pay her dividends based on the profits those companies make. That's her retirement, along with Social Security. Mother pays income taxes on those dividends, so the government is getting its cut. But, when you read the left-wing spin you never hear about the hundreds of thousands of small people who own those companies. No, just the rich billionaires.

You wanna tax my Mother? She owns Exxon-Mobile.

But that doesn't change the fact that our President is a fool.

J said...

Fact Pawpaw: your mother pays more in income taxes than Exxon-Mobil. I believe the 15% off-the-top depletion allowance should be retained for stripper wells, i.e., an oil well which produces 10 barrels a day or less. But an oil well making 1,000 and even 10,000 barrels of oil a day, i.e., $100,000 and $1,000,000 PER DAY deserves NOT EVEN 1% off the top as a tax credit. Besides, why let just oil producers get an income tax break? Let's let cops not pay income tax. Why not teachers? Nurses?

Old NFO said...

Figures lie and liars figure... sigh.

Anonymous said...

J, fact 50% of the freeloaders don't pay any income tax at all. That's the welfare cheats, dead beats, drug heads, drunks that don't hold a job and always have their hand out. That's right people like that take my hard earned money and give it to people who do not want to better their on the goverment dole....smoke their dope and drink the 40 oz.. But is you want to drug test these freeloaders your are a "racist." I know for a fact that people like cops, teachers, nurses (ie: working people)do pay taxes and are required on most jobs to take drug test. Most of the time both the husband and wife work to pay the bills, save a little for their kids education and to support the useless folks that sit on the front steps and watch us go to work every day. Give me a break....

Anonymous said...

J said...

I believe the 15% off-the-top depletion allowance should be retained for stripper wells, i.e., an oil well which produces 10 barrels a day or less. But an oil well making 1,000 and even 10,000 barrels of oil a day, i.e., $100,000 and $1,000,000 PER DAY deserves NOT EVEN 1% off the top as a tax credit.

The only wells making 10,000 bbls of oil a day in the USA are deep water wells. And they cost multiple millions to drill and complete. Tying them back to deep-water platforms cost more millions.

Pawpaw said...

Ya know, one of the first things we learn in business school is that corporations as public entities have to file financial sheets. Those sheets are public record. According to Yahoo! Finance, the PL statement for Exxon Mobil Corporation shows that they paid $21.5 billion in Income Tax Expense last year on net earnings of $53.2 billion. It looks to me, for the year ending Dec 2010 that they paid income tax at a rate of over 40%.

J said...

I suggest you Google "exxon income taxes 2010"

They paid not 1¢ in USA income tax in 2010.

Re: Anonymous. So you would require students, the disabled, the elderly, those on minimun wage, etc., to pay income tax or else? Or else what?

Re: deep water costs. Point #1: those wells almost always produce natural gas in a near-$ match to the oil they produce. Point #2: a million $ a day quickly recovers costs. Point #3: it costs millions to train doctors, nurses, lawyers, cops and college professors. Shall we also give them an income tax pass?

PS: every dark-skinned person sitting on the front steps drinking a 40 oz isn't on the dole.

Rivrdog said...

Anonymous nailed it. A poll like this one would be worthless on it's face.

No way anyone who pays no taxes should ever be asked if they like the tax system.

Makes about as much sense as asking a lifer in prison if he likes blue denim or not.

So, if you pull out that 50% who pay no taxes, then a majority do not like the tax system.

Pawpaw said...

I did Google that, J. I saw what you're seeing, and none of those are trusted financial sites. The vast majority of them are left-wing spin. If you want the true story, go to someplace like Forbes, or Standard and Poors, or even CNN money and you'll find out that Exxon-Mobil pays an effective tax rate of about 45%. SOme of that is income tax, some of that is excise tax and import duties and some of that is sales tax, but the whole lot of it goes to the IRS, because the IRS is the agency that collect America's revenue.

But, that doesn't answer the original question of why our President said that 80% of Americans want to see increased taxes.

They don't. 80% of Americans do not want taxes raised. Our President got it wrong and he's still a fool.

J said...

Ok, I went to CNN.

"Exxon paid the most taxes last year of any U.S. company, by far -- but not a cent went to the IRS for income taxes. That's because the oil giant does business in some of the mostly highly taxed countries in the world."

Paying taxes in Nigeria does zilch to keep grandpa in a nursing home in the USA.

Termite said...

J said...
Paying taxes in Nigeria does zilch to keep grandpa in a nursing home in the USA.

True enough. However, taxes were paid, in the jurisdiction where the profit was made.
Exxon does not have to pay Nigerian tax, then pay full US income tax as though the profit was earned in the Gulf of Mexico.
And that's not just corporations, private US citizens follow many of the same tax laws for overseas accounts and holdings.

Example(a very quick and non-precise one): Let's say I own a seaside apartment in Spain, and Spanish real estate is booming. In 1998 I paid $100,000 for this apartment, and in 2011 I sell it for $200,000. If Spanish tax law for long term capital gains for property owners, both Spanish citizens and non-citizens, requires them to pay 10% of the gain, I will owe the Spanish government $10,000.
I'm an American citizen, residing primarily in America. I only spend 6-8 weeks per year in my seaside apartment in Spain. US tax law requires American citizens to pay income taxes on all their income, regardless of where it is generated(BTW, not all countries require this of their citizens). US tax on long term capital gains is 15%. Am I required to pay the IRS 15% of my $100,000 profit($15,000), in addition to the $10,000 I already paid Spain?
NO. US federal tax law recognizes that the profit was generated in Spain, and that Spain has primary jurisdiction. However, because I am a US citizen residing primarily in the US, I am required to pay the difference between the two amounts, if the jurisdictional country's taxes are less than the US taxes. So I owe the IRS $5,000.

Corporate tax law, especially international corporate tax law is far more complicated than the rather simplistic example I gave.
However, Exxon/Mobile didn't write the tax code, they just are bound by law to follow it. And it is the responsibility of the CEO and officers to take every legal avenue to pay the lowest allowed tax, in order to maximize profits to the corporation's shareholders.

The blame for the maze of corporate tax law lies with the US Congress, who wrote it. If they want Exxon/Mobile to pay full US income taxes on their world-wide profits generated, at the full US rate regardless if Exxon/Mobile already paid the host country's taxes, then Congress can re-write the tax law to do that.

Anonymous said...

J, I never said a thing about "every dark-skinned person sitting on the front steps drinking a 40 oz isn't on the dole." That "you" not me. I could care less what race, sex, gender, or lame excuse these folks used to set there. And "yes" everyone that is physically/mentally able should be required to help pull the wagon. Food stamps are a good example. I see folks all the time load their buggies with name brand items, the best cuts of meat, and junk food and then pull out their La. Purchase card and pay for it. Myself and the other working poor who do not have our hand out for everything buy the house brands, use cupons, cut out the junk food, colas, etc to try and save a little money. If I am spending your money it easy to live "high on the hog."